Knotted leader help

[StippledPopper]

  I use the 60%, 20%, 20% formula for almost all my leaders.  Mine
are 7 piece leaders 3 butt, 3 mid, 1 tippet and use blood knots all the way.

  I have the materials to make a board for furling my own.  I've figured out
how to do that with 7 step downs too.  Only I've never gotten around to
building the thing.

[Ron Mc]

fluorocarbon sinks - use Mason nylon to make your leader float. 

[A.B.]

AB - I'm still burdened with employment, thankfully, unlike the Captain, or I would join him on those trips. 

If you happen to be a beer drinker, I heard today that our local craft brewing company just shipped the first truckload to Arkansas.  Called Tallgrass Brewing Company. 

Craig

I'm enjoying a Velvet Rooster right now.  Very nice.

[Craig Phillips]

I'm enjoying a Velvet Rooster right now.  Very nice.

Belgian Trippel in a can.  Makes me proud to be a Kansan!

[ScooterP]

I was searching for leader help on here and found this post. If I understand correctly, the butt section should be 65 to 70% of the flyline diameter, then step down to no more than 65% of the butt section size for the mid section and finally step down to 65% of the mid section for the tippet in a 3 part leader. Now, there are various ways to go down to a certain tippet size say 6 pound test as a tippet by adding more step downs, ie making the mid section two pieces stepping down 65% and making it a 4 part leader using the Charles Ritz formula presented on the link Tom Jindra has supplied...is this correct?

Then I checked the link Norm Frechette posted of global fly fisher leadercalc and used the 2007 version. I plugged in several different configurations and it automatically configured several variations but you need to know how to convert a certain weight for your tippet size. If I read it correctly a 4x tippet is approximately 6.6 pounds...is this correct? This program seemed a bit cumbersome trying to make it come out the way I wanted it, and that may have been the problem...trying to make it come out the way I wanted it, causing me the problem. Plus, how would this affect the calculation if I wanted to throw a dropper rig off the back?

Fishing in Central Florida in the dishpan lakes we have, the weeds are pretty thick and we know how gills like to dive into them when hooked. This makes me leary of going lighter than 6 lb as many gills are good sized because of the longer growing season here (plus the occasional bass picking up the fly). A size 10 is the smallest fly I throw, mostly size 6 and 8 are my preference. This also helps keep the juvenile gills off the hook. If I were to throw a size 6 floater or popper and a size 8-10 dropper, how much if any will this change the dynamics of the leader set-up or am I over complicating and over thinking this? Additionally, how long is the ideal leader for panfishing, I am guessing 7.5 to 9 ft. Even this may be an error in thinking on my part. My thought is a 9ft leader for a single fly whether floating or sinking and a 7.5 ft to the floater or popper adding up to 1.5 ft for the dropper making it up to 9 ft total length. This is using a 7.5 ft 4 weight rod with floating line, water depths up to 6 feet during the drought times like now. Water clarity is stained to clear. During deeper water level times a longer dropper may be in order.

I may be completely wrong and if so, any help would be greatly appreciated. I have read as many things as I could get my hands on about panfishing but many here have probably read more, learned from friends and practiced the theory and come up with a better understanding or better way to make an effective leader for panfish. 

[bob boese]

Here's a slightly different approach.
First,an explanation.  Bass, sac-a-lait and large bluegill are not line shy.  Consider that most bass casters use 14-17# test, and worm dunkers use 8-12#. So...making the leader/tippet is, IHMO, simple.  Of course, I'm doing something dangerous and assuming.  I'm assuming your hopper is large enough to use a size 8-4 hook.  If you are using smaller, size down what I'm about to say.

Use a loop ended butt section of 30-40#test mono.  Three feet is enough.
Use loop to loop of 8# test tied to your hopper. 
Tie the next line (your 6# tippet) to the hooper hook bend (traditional location).  I use a Pitzen knot, but others are acceptable.
HOWEVER, if your dropper is tiny (I will use a Boudreaux or soft hackle as small as a size 14) you should make the tippet a 4# test or (if you can find it) a 6# test that is no bigger than 23mm diameter.  Why?  Because the knot of a line too large for the fly can change the shape of the fly.  Oh, and I always use floro for the dropper tippet.

[bob boese]

I forgot, the leader to the hopper/popper is 4 feet and the tippet to the dropper varies with depth of the water.

[Tom Jindra]

I was searching for leader help on here and found this post. If I understand correctly, the butt section should be 65 to 70% of the flyline diameter, then step down to no more than 65% of the butt section size for the mid section and finally step down to 65% of the mid section for the tippet in a 3 part leader. Now, there are various ways to go down to a certain tippet size say 6 pound test as a tippet by adding more step downs, ie making the mid section two pieces stepping down 65% and making it a 4 part leader using the Charles Ritz formula presented on the link Tom Jindra has supplied...is this correct?

Looks like you've summed things up nicely.

Then I checked the link Norm Frechette posted of global fly fisher leadercalc and used the 2007 version. I plugged in several different configurations and it automatically configured several variations but you need to know how to convert a certain weight for your tippet size. If I read it correctly a 4x tippet is approximately 6.6 pounds...is this correct? This program seemed a bit cumbersome trying to make it come out the way I wanted it, and that may have been the problem...trying to make it come out the way I wanted it, causing me the problem. Plus, how would this affect the calculation if I wanted to throw a dropper rig off the back?

The "X" refers to the mono's diameter, not pound-test. A diameter of 0.010 inches is 1X, then you add an X each time you drop down another thousandth. I.e., 0.009 is 2X; 0.008 is 3X; 0.007 is 4X; 0.006 is 5X.

When adding a dropper, drop down one mono size. I.e., you've got a 4X leader that's working well, try 5X for the dropper. If adding the dropper causes the leader to collapse, try shortening the tippet. If that doesn't solve the problem, try a heavier tippet, such as 3X.

A size 10 is the smallest fly I throw, mostly size 6 and 8 are my preference. This also helps keep the juvenile gills off the hook. If I were to throw a size 6 floater or popper and a size 8-10 dropper, how much if any will this change the dynamics of the leader set-up or am I over complicating and over thinking this? Additionally, how long is the ideal leader for panfishing, I am guessing 7.5 to 9 ft. Even this may be an error in thinking on my part. My thought is a 9ft leader for a single fly whether floating or sinking and a 7.5 ft to the floater or popper adding up to 1.5 ft for the dropper making it up to 9 ft total length.

Do whatever works best for you; it's more art than science.

I tend toward 10-foot leaders, but 7.5 feet is generally all you need for panfish. If the fish seem shy, go longer.

As a rule of thumb, shorter leaders will turn over better than long leaders. Shorter leaders will, likewise, handle droppers better than long leaders. But it all comes down to experimenting and developing experience. That's when it becomes easy.

[ScooterP]

Thank you Tom and Bob for your replies on my question(s). I will try both of these ways and see how things go. I will probably run the dropper off a loop at the back of the hopper/popper that is tied into the back of the fly. I appreciate any help I receive so I don't reinvent the wheel. I may even give furled (twisted) leaders a go. Now to wrap my head and hands around some leader material.

[Tom Jindra]

Running the dropper from the bend of your popper's hook works quite well. I can think of two other methods, but neither offers any advantage over what you plan.

[SWMO]

I started making and using the No Jig furled leaders last year and haven't looked back.  They are so easy to do everyone should at least try them.  I make mine with #8 Yo Zuri Hybrid because I had lots of it, but I would think any decent mono/hybrid/fluorocarbon would work.
I don't knot mine at the junction at the end, but I pass the end through the long piece a couple of times and then add a touch of super glue.