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91
General Discussion / Re: R.I.P 2-piece fly rods.
« Last post by Boyscout on July 08, 2015, 04:04:23 PM »
To add 2 cents to the "importance" of portability conversation.

I fish 99% of the time from a 12 canoe. My backup rod is a 4 pc and stays in the case. Due to location of my other gear, the 4 pc is much easier to stow away and tie down in a place where it won't tangle with shooting line.

For me it is not traveling to exotic destinations but just easier gear stowage while on the water.

Oh wow, a civilized conversation on the internet...what a novel concept these days!

Derek

92
General Discussion / Re: R.I.P 2-piece fly rods.
« Last post by Tom Jindra on July 08, 2015, 03:34:41 PM »
for most of the last century, anglers didn't seem inconvenienced by 2-piece rods.

That is true. But for most of the 20th century and before, ferrules were either nickel-silver, chromed metal of some sort or wood sections bound together with cord. Given those options, I would be screaming for one-piece fly rods. But most consumers wanted the convenience of portability, either for travel or the ease of stowing their gear when not on the water. Whatever the reason, one-piece fly rods never found much of a market, and the manufacturers put almost all their effort into making two-piece rods.
93
General Discussion / Re: R.I.P 2-piece fly rods.
« Last post by deathb4disco on July 08, 2015, 12:46:13 PM »
Portability is desirable because people like convenience. Part of that is certainly because the fly-fishing community travels (why not take your gear when you go on vacation?), but part of it is the convenience of driving to your local fishing hole or stashing your gear when you get home.

I think the emphasis on travel is the driving factor. 

I don't doubt convenience is also a factor but, for most of the last century, anglers didn't seem inconvenienced by 2-piece rods.

I don't have strong feelings about it one way or the other.  I just think it's an interesting discussion.  :)

94
General Discussion / Re: R.I.P 2-piece fly rods.
« Last post by Tom Jindra on July 08, 2015, 11:36:39 AM »
But why is portability so desirable?  Could it be because the fly fishing industry promotes world travel so much?  (Yvon Chouinard basically makes this point in his recent tenkara book.)

Portability is desirable because people like convenience. Part of that is certainly because the fly-fishing community travels (why not take your gear when you go on vacation?), but part of it is the convenience of driving to your local fishing hole or stashing your gear when you get home. I always found it annoying that my two-piece rods were too long to lay flat in the back of my car, because the car was too narrow. And it's not because I was driving a sports car. I suppose I could have bought a pickup truck or a Suburban, but it was a lot easier and less expensive to buy four-piece fly rods.

And it's not like portability is desirable only in fly rods. It's a factor in most everything we do. I'll bet, for example, that the overwhelming majority of people reading this website do so on a portable laptop or tablet, if not their phone, instead of using a desktop computer (who buys desktop computers these days anyway?). And when was the last time you owned a phone that wasn't portable? Again, you probably rely on a cell phone these days. If not, you at least use a cordless phone at home.
95
General Discussion / Re: R.I.P 2-piece fly rods.
« Last post by Bayoutalker on July 08, 2015, 09:32:14 AM »
I don't think dealers are trying to fool anyone. What I suspect happened is that most of us owned all of the 2pc rods we needed. The nature of a fisherman is to buy the latest new thing and that is what was done. Everyone ran out and bought a 4pc and set the market in a new direction. As with any product, Tom is right, manufacturers are in business to make money and the best way to do that is offer what is currently selling.

Us old holdouts will come over sooner or later and discussions like this will change to whatever the new trend is.
96
General Discussion / Re: R.I.P 2-piece fly rods.
« Last post by deathb4disco on July 08, 2015, 09:29:03 AM »
If consumers make known that they prefer two-piece rods, the manufacturers will fall all over themselves to supply those rods. But the consumer has spoken, and he has spoken in favor of portability.

But why is portability so desirable?  Could it be because the fly fishing industry promotes world travel so much?  (Yvon Chouinard basically makes this point in his recent tenkara book.)



97
General Discussion / Re: R.I.P 2-piece fly rods.
« Last post by Tom Jindra on July 08, 2015, 09:14:23 AM »
With the modern technology in rod manufacturing today, I would venture that less than 1% of fishermen could tell the difference between a 1 piece, 2 piece, and 4 piece rod if they were blindfolded and could only use their tactile senses to evaluate how a rod cast.  A 4 piece rod easily converts to a 2 piece rod, just don't take it completely apart.

Tom Jindra, please give us your expert opinion, not on what the market demands, (the customer is always right) but on the actual difference in casting, strength, breakage, ability to fight fish, etc on multi-piece rods, vs those with fewer components.  I do not believe for one second that most of us can tell the difference.

We are in total agreement. Excluding the discount rods on the market and limiting the discussion to mainstream fly rod companies, I'm skeptical that many people could distinguish between a two-piece rod and a four-piece rod in a blind test. I'm confident that I could not.

Nor is breakage made worse by the number of ferrules. Maybe in a theoretical world, i.e. the chance for trouble automatically increases with the number of parts. But not in my actual experience.

I've had the good fortune to chase most everything from bream to steelhead, redfish to bonefish, bluefish to tarpon, all of it with four-piece rods at least since 1990. And yet, I've never had a fish break one of my rods. I've never even seen a fish break a rod or had a rod break on the water. Only twice have I broken a rod at the ferrule, and each time, the break was entirely my fault.

There was a time when multi-piece rods were clearly inferior to two-piece versions. The ferrules were stiff, they were fragile, they were heavy. But ferrule design has come a long way in the past 30 years or so.

That's not to say ferrules can never fail; anything made by man can fail. But most failures are caused by improper seating.

How so?

Most failures occur when the ferrule loosens, allowing the male section to put excessive pressure on the outer wall of the female section. If you have problems with the tip flying off your rod when you cast, you're a prime candidate for a busted rod.

What is the proper technique for seating a ferrule?

Position the two rod sections so that the guides on one are turned 90 degrees to the other. Now, turn the sections into alignment as you push them together. And don't be shy about pushing the sections together. If the ferrule pulls apart easily, you've done it wrong.

(And how do you separate the sections? Execute the process in reverse: As you pull the ferrule apart, turn the sections in the opposite direction as when you seated the ferrule.)

Not a part of your question, but worth mentioning just the same: Should you wax a ferrule?

In years past, I always encouraged people to use wax, but no more. Ferrule design and manufacturing tolerances have improved to the point where waxing accomplishes nothing (again, I'm limiting my comments to the mainstream rod companies). In fact, TFO specifically recommends against waxing, warning that the wax can accumulate grit, which can ultimately damage the ferrule. So dig that old candle out of your tackle bag, and throw it away. You don't need it anymore.

One more point:

If you prefer a two-piece rod, good for you. I'm not offended in the least, and I encourage you to check out Temple Fork's Signature Series. There are some great rods and great values in that series. Likewise with the Bug Launcher rods.

But I struggle to understand comments that the manufacturers and dealers are somehow pulling a fast one on consumers by pushing multi-piece rods. I'm a tackle rep, and I try very hard to be honest with the public. You might not agree with me, but that's hardly grounds for suggesting I'm somehow trying to hoodwink you.

And Larry, who created and pays for this website, is a tackle dealer. You can say many things about Larry, as in he's crazy or he doesn't buy enough tackle from me. But nobody should question his integrity. Yes, like me, Larry wants to make a sale. It's sort of the model on which our economy is based. But not just any sale. He also wants the customer to go away happy, in hopes that the customer will keep coming back. Nobody is trying to pull a fast one, at least nobody among the companies I represent.

The reason multi-piece fly rods outnumber two-piece rods is the market. If consumers make known that they prefer two-piece rods, the manufacturers will fall all over themselves to supply those rods. But the consumer has spoken, and he has spoken in favor of portability.
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General Discussion / Re: R.I.P 2-piece fly rods.
« Last post by Bayoutalker on July 08, 2015, 08:06:28 AM »
Qualey, you may well be correct that performance and durability are not an issue with the 4pc rods. I really don't have any reason not to like them, I just can't find any reason to like them. They offer no advantage to me but then again the only negative I have is they just aren't what I am used to. They are just not aesthetically pleasing. LOL

I am the same way with vehicles. I am well aware that many people are driving vehicles with 200,000+ miles on them with no issues but it scares the he!! out of me to own one with 100,000 on it. Mentally I know it is not a problem but emotionally I just am not comfortable with it.

Sometimes facts and figures are not what is important. You have to be happy with your equipment to enjoy the experience.
99
General Discussion / Re: R.I.P 2-piece fly rods.
« Last post by qualey99 on July 08, 2015, 06:19:45 AM »
With the modern technology in rod manufacturing today, I would venture that less than 1% of fishermen could tell the difference between a 1 piece, 2 piece, and 4 piece rod if they were blindfolded and could only use their tactile senses to evaluate how a rod cast.  A 4 piece rod easily converts to a 2 piece rod, just don't take it completely apart.

Tom Jindra, please give us your expert opinion, not on what the market demands, (the customer is always right) but on the actual difference in casting, strength, breakage, ability to fight fish, etc on multi-piece rods, vs those with fewer components.  I do not believe for one second that most of us can tell the difference.
100
General Discussion / Re: R.I.P 2-piece fly rods.
« Last post by Bayoutalker on July 08, 2015, 05:55:43 AM »
Add one more to the 2 piece camp. I grudgingly bought my only 4 piece  9wt due to the fact that there were no 2 piece available. I have only cast it on the grass so far as I just can't get excited about it enough to pull it out. I guess I better just stay happy with the 2pc rods I have and take good care of them.
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