Where do I get a glass rod?

[Sebastian]

I keep reading how tough glass rods are, but how/where do I find one?

[Ron Mc]

You can still buy Diamondglass in a few sizes  http://www.diamondbackflyrods.com/pages/fly-rods/diamondglass.php

pricey, T&T heirloom - http://www.thomasandthomas.com/p.heirloom/hl.html

Mike McFarland  http://www.mcfarlandrods.com/mcfarland_new/dsp_spruce.asp
Mike does not make his own blanks, but he is great at working with tapers and recently offered a 7' parabolic 5-wt. glass rod modeled after a PHY taper. 

Mark Steffen  http://www.steffenbrothersflyrods.com/fiberglassrods.htm
(if you contact him, he will hand-roll whatever blank you want)

TL Johnson  http://www.tljohnsoncompany.com/sg.html

there are some Great rods made in Japan, but not imported, Axisco is one of the best buys, you can buy the UL multipiece pack rods from Blue Dun Fly Shop in Tokyo (Mr. Hisao there has excellent English) 
http://bluedun.net/RodsandReels_pack_rod_english.htm
he also has Fenwick yellow glass
http://bluedun.net/RodsandReels-Fenwick_Yellow_glass_english.htm
On the pricey end, Blue Dun carries Takada glass, Campanella and North Country Angler

I recently helped a friend buy a 2-pc. Axisco using a Japanese broker - with Broker fees and shipping, the rod was $220
http://jm.st70.arena.ne.jp/NTT/catalogue/ROD/ANGLE/FLY/AIRRITE.GLASS.htm
Navy Bass also carries a line of Issac glass rods
http://jm.st70.arena.ne.jp/NTT/catalogue/ROD/CAPS/FLY/IZ6.htm
note that the Issac model PBEX8667 is a parabolic taper rod. 
you can buy either of these by going through a broker -
http://crescent-shop.com/
Masamichi has excellent English, and his search/buy is set up as a message board, much like this one.  Give him a link to the product, tell him the model number, etc.  He will get back to you with a quote (EXCL. shipping to the US, which is about $40 for a rod).  You pay, he buys.  When he receives it he sends you a shipping invoice, you pay and have the rod in 4 days. 

there are some custom Japanese makers that build glass rods with striking good looks - they rival any cane rod from any cane rod maker - rods that come to mind include Norie and Studio Thin Line - if you are interested, I can help you hunt them down - here's a taste: 
http://p099.ezboard.com/ffiberglassflyroddersfrm14.showMessage?topicID=144.topic


Then there is ebay - start hunting down venerable glass rods from the 50s, 60s and 70s. 
You will note the medium-length and short glass rods bid high - there's a reason for that - these are the most desirable and the length and line weight combinations can't be duplicated in modern graphite rods. 

Last, and least, I have a couple for sale - what are you looking for? 

[Harold Krause]

I got mine for free from my brother. He is a contractor and does a lot of demos on houses. He found mine (shown on other post) in a garage of an old house they were going to tear down. We both have been life long fishers, just not fly fishers. He instinctivly knew to grab a "free" fishing rod when he sees one. He had it for a while, and on a visit about 2 years ago, I mentioned I was getting into fly fishing.  He never fly fished but he did keep it. He told me "I have an old fly rod in the garage I got from a demo, you want it?" I said, "He## Ya". It took me all weekend to dig through his abyss of crap of a garage, but sure enough on the day I was leaving I finally found it. I was acctually disapointed at first. When he said "an old fly rod" I was hoping for a "treasured" split bamboo rod. That is why it sat with me for the last two years. Man am I glad I kept it and have people like Ron to not only educate me about it, but to get me excited about rods I would have normally overlooked. My next mission is to find a reel and line to go with it (it did have one of those spring loaded auto retract line type reels which I destroyed trying to get it to work again).

Point to my story...where do you find them...any and everywhere. I will be stopping at a lot more garage sales now. There is no telling how many of these rods I have seen for $5.00 and just passed up. My friend even found some old fiberglass blanks at an estate sale for $2.00 a piece. To me the hunt (and the bargins) is part of the fun.

[Harold Krause]

Ron Mc...to pick on you again but, what is the difference on the "quality" of fiberglass? I know graphite is rated in modules. Then they are rated on action, weight, ect. as any other rod, but why would one fiberglass blank less than $20.00 yet others are $300.00? Bamboo, I understand the difference. Fiberglass...confused???

Check out link:

http://www.jannsnetcraft.com/netcraft-fiberglass-blanks/

[Andy Webb]

Ok, I could be wrong here, but in glass rods, the blanks themselves is not where the huge discrepancy in pricing comes in it's in the accoutrements. Reel seats, guides, agate strippers, etc. You can get a vintage glass rod that is near new for $50 if you are patient. The new glass rods run between 200-500 and not many places carry them in stock (at least in my area). There again, you are essentially paying for name I believe. A Scott F is the highest of them as far as I know at almost 5 bills.

I personally like the older Shakespeare Wonderods. You can get those for sub $50 most of the time in the longer lengths. I have a 7'9" 7wt that I got for a trade on an 8'6 Wright McGill Sweetheart. It is a dear of a rod that will fish for everything locally, except for in creeks. So, if I were you, I would monitor the For Sale thread on Fiberglassflyrodders and catch a deal on there, or check ebay where deals abound, but don't buy one without great photos on ebay. Here is the link to FFR

http://p099.ezboard.com/fiberglassflyrodders/bfiberglassflyrodders

You will feel right at home there.

[Ron Mc]

Specific modulus is the resistance to elastic deformation (elastic = spring behavior) of the fibers used in the rod. 
It's about 30 to 55 million for graphite grades, 24 million for bamboo, 19 million for S-glass, and 11-million for E-glass.  Excepting the bamboo, these values are for the fibers, not for the rod itself because on a plastic rod, the fibers are cast in a much softer plastic matrix (the resin), so the equivalent specific modulus of the rod is softer than for the fibers alone.  The Bulk modulus (at some point on the rod) is this new average modulus times the moment of inertia (affected by the sectional area, and diameter and thickness) of the rod blank at this point (and changes as you move along the rod blank).  All of this combines to give you a load vs. deflection curve moving down the rod blank, which is the rod taper. 
http://rodbuildingforum.com/index.php?act=special&page=taperindex
http://rodbuildingforum.com/index.php?act=special&page=taperview&id=20


I'm with you, I think we should tell Orvis, T&T, Winston, Sage, etc. there is no place in the world for $700 plastic fly rods.  See if they listen. 

I will tell you this, those $700 graphite fly rods perform better than the $24 Pflueger/Shakespeare/et.al. Chinese graphite rods.  They may be made out of the same basic materials, but they're not made the same way.  The guys will tell you their $700 rods are well-engineered, and their Tapers (the rate of change in Bulk modulus as you move down the blank - fiberglass rods have tapers, as do split cane rods) are well-thought out. 
I can tell you that the $24 graphite fly rods don't work because they don't have good tapers, and neither do the $19 Eagle Claw fiberglass rods for the same reason, in spite of their many fans.  (oh, and the higher-grade versions of the Chinese graphite rods, $68 or so, are finished out much nicer, but still don't work because they are made on the same bad blank.) 

If Mark Steffen hand-makes you a fiberglass rod blank, and you don't like it, he will be there to listen and provide you a replacement, if necessary. 
try complaining to the Chinese guys when you find their $20 blank doesnt work. 

Tapers vary tremendously with fiberglass rods.  I have some that closely mimic my trout bamboo, and others that are clearly bass or saltwater rods. 
http://rodbuildingforum.com/index.php?act=special&page=taperview&id=16
http://rodbuildingforum.com/index.php?act=special&page=taperview&id=32

Do you happen to like the semiparabolic taper of a PHY Driggs River bamboo rod? 
http://rodbuildingforum.com/index.php?act=special&page=taperview&id=23
Mike McFarland has copied it specifically in fiberglass. 
http://www.mcfarlandrods.com/mcfarland_new/dsp_spruce_Parabolic.asp

Graphite buys you a lighter rod to achieve the same bulk modulus.  But graphite limits you in how much you can change that bulk modulus from end to end on the rod.  Note that 6-weight graphite rods only work in 9' lengths...you can make a 6-wt 6' fiberglass rod that works beautifully.  If you try making this rod in graphite, it's a tomato stake. 



good ol' E-glass.  Because you're starting with the lowest specific modulus, your can vary glass rod tapers much more than bamboo and, especially, graphite. 
And when you get up to the long, stiff, heavy rods, graphite is the logical choice, because it makes the lightest rod to reach the needed bulk modulus. 

[Don Richardson]

Ron,
Your knowledge is impressive.  I enjoy reading your explanations for the various rods and their characteristics.

I started fly fishing over 50 years ago on an (at the time) old bamboo rod.  We soon graduated to fiberglass rods.  I recently received an old (50+ years) fiberglass rod and reel that had belonged to my dad...2 piece 6 or 7 weight.  It seems very limber.  The two pieces are "frozen" together and I have had no luck in trying to get them apart.  Do you or anyone have any suggestions for getting the ferrules apart?

don

[StippledPopper]

My guess is that the ferrules on the rod are metal. You've probably already tried this since it is a fairly well known recommendation for ferrules that are stuck during normal use and your rod has probably been together a long time:

Use pieces of rubber tubes or some of the, usually beige colored waffle foam pot holders(or the similar stuff they sell to put under household rugs) to grasp the two pieces of the rod where joined.  Your grip will be much better.  Pull straight and smooth... no jerking.  It might help if someone else held one end and you the other and pulled(double the pull).  Don't twist. 

For bamboo rods using heat/cold is not recommended because of possible effects on the glue attaching the ferrules to the rod.  My guess this would also apply to fiberglass rods.

With nickel silver, lubricants are not recommended either because of the problem of removing all of it afterwards... the dust and grit it attracts.

As a last resort, either display the rod as a family heirloom or seek the help of a professional who restores old rods if you want to use it.

[Ron Mc]

heat/cold is exactly the trick - but if they are metal, put a light oil on top of the female ferrule and let it wet down for a few days.  Leave the rod in the cold garage and let it get cold through, then take a blow drier to the female and try to pull it apart before the male ferrule warms up. 
thank you for nice comments. 
In line with Fred's warnings about glue - keep the heat moderate - you're just trying to get them started. 

and when you get it apart, too keep it from happening again - and this applies to your plastic ferrules, too - lube your ferrules with just the thinnest coat of paraffin (Gulfwax). 

[Harold Krause]

Wow…thanks for the information guys. That does help.

Andy, I do understand what you are saying. The quality of the components and build is important, but I was talking about just the blank alone.  Look at my earlier link. We will say a 6’6” blank…the first one $11.79. The link below, shows a fiberglass blank (two piece) at $120.00. I guess that is why I was confused about the “quality” issue of the actual fiberglass used to make them. I understand that the taper has a lot to do with it, but again my question, is the actual glass that is used worth that much of a difference in price?

http://www.steffenbrothersflyrods.com/fiberglassrods.htm

[gene bethea]

you can buy some really nice fiberglass rods for a song.  They're out there.  i build fly rods out of the e-glass blanks from batson, which sell for $10-$15 bucks and they fish fine.  Glass rods can be had on ebay for less than $50 which are very good rods.  You can pick up some deals at garage sales, trading villages, antique stores, trade day sales, etc.  Just pick up one and go fishing.-p-

[Ron Mc]

first test of a rod - does it rollcast?  Because there are many fish you won't be able to fish if it doesn't. 




- rollcast; - load quickly to fish close and delicate; - distance cast :
When you have a rod that will let you do all of this you have a good taper. 
_________________________

Harold, Mark Steffen hand-makes some of the best glass rod blanks available today. 

Your question is the same as whether the IM6 graphite used in a Chinese Shakespeare/Pflueger blank is any different than the IM6 graphite used in a Winston blank and, therefore, is the difference in their prices justifiable?  Or, since hardware store bamboo rods used the same tonkin bamboo as Pinky Gillum, aren't they just as good? 

The fact is, it's not the level of finish that separates a Winston IM6 graphite rod from a Chinese Shakespeare IM6 graphite rod.  It is the fact that one works exceptionally well while the other doesn't work very well at all.   

If you have made your 6'6" fly rod from a Batson glass spinning rod blank and are now ready to move on, don't you want a rod that you can appreciate for more than just the improvements in the way you finished it?  Mark Steffen gets my highest recommendation.  But there are other good blanks you can consider - Lamiglas for one. 

If you are asking what the differences are between E-glass and S-glass, I believe I answered that above. 
But if it's the former, this is the same choice that is pushing all manufacturing offshore and replacing American artisans and quality with Chinese Bad-CNC. 
I also doubt whether it was ever a question vs. an editorial. 
On one hand, we have purpose-designed and hand-made American quality.  On the other hand we have generic Chinese high output.  Ten-thousand for the cost of a hundred.  Ten-thousand that don't work, but they're cheaper. 

[Don Richardson]

Thanks for the input guys.  I will give the heat/cold a try.  I have had some penetrating oil in the female ferrule for a while.  Still no movement by hand.  It is metal ferrules and they have been together for decades I would guess.  Ultimately I want to refinish it and maybe fish it.

[Bill Anderson, Sarasota, FL.]

I agree on the idiocy of spending $700 on a graphite fly rod. I can buy darned good bamboo rods with two tips for that much money. That $700 graphite rod is worth  half what you paid for it the moment you walk out the door with it. Bamboo will not only hold its value, but can increase over the years. I also love good glass fly rods, and I think the next one I build will be on a Steffen blank. $155 or so for a high end, top quality 3 piece blank is not bad. I have several top of the line Orvis graphites, but they date back to the late 70s and early 90s. I just won't pay their asking prices these days. It's a ripoff, in my opnion. I'll bet they make $500 or more profit on a $700 plastic rod. No wonder they do so well financially. For half that I can buy a custom made Steffen rod that will fish as well as that high end graphite, and probably cast better, too.

[Ron Mc]

all very good points, Bill. 
Steffen and McFarland both make beautiful 3-pc. blanks. 
these two articles in Trout Underground are fun: 

http://troutunderground.com/2008/01/23/casting-glass-the-undergrounds-wholly-biased-take-on-the-modern-fiberglass-fly-rod/

http://troutunderground.com/2008/01/30/our-wholly-biased-look-at-fiberglass-fly-rods-part-ii-the-builders/

and part III just added
http://troutunderground.com/2008/02/08/our-wholly-biased-look-at-fiberglass-fly-rods-part-iii-the-bigger-builders/